Sheep vs Wolf 2 mod GUIDE

 [MM]Mallow_


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Дата причоединения 19 de de 2016
Посты:28
Отредактировано10 de de 2017 - 16:20[MM]Mallow_
+Gallas wrote:
Mallow_ You don't have to shout (using caps), but you have there some nice idea what I will consider when will be at civ part. There is only one bad thing: technology related team bonuses are NOT working on AoC. The reason not known, only aoak fixed it, but any previous patch ignores team bonuses if it's modify techs.
997 . posted it before full editiing. i guess those changes give it flexibilty to all civs. pls let me know which of those you are interested and is possible to change.
Thanks
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 Peterpaiter


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 23 de de 2014
Посты:42
Отредактировано10 de de 2017 - 17:21Peterpaiter
why not make sheep price default 1k and sheep los default without eagle watch..and give better flexibility to other civs.

Personally, i think the LOS thing could be interesting if it is re-managed a little. increasing the LOS of some things and less of others removing the eagle watch bonus could be good.
I would like to clearify anyway a point:
every civ should be chosen for some vantages, team or not team. The game should be based on the idea that more people can take the same civ, if they consider the personal bonus good enough, but team bonuses are to be considered bonuses and not something that sheeps must live with for sure. Wolves has X civs and each time they've to chose 2 civs, chosing only 2 single team bonuses vs 6 team bonuses of yours. This makes me always think about 2 things:
1 - the team bonuses of sheeps should be less strong and relevant then wolves' bonuses, as they take 6 instead of 2
2 - as sheeps has the chance to take 6 different teams, could be there's no need to have 6 different bonuses.

I do not like some of the sheeps' points, as i find them too important, unbalancing the game too much. for example, an increase of speed of trading fishes would mean muuuch more then 10% more of gold from trade, it would mean harder for wolves/crocos to hunt them, that would mean more fishes doing successful trade, less food for wolves and less gold used to create trading fishes. All this would mean that a new balance should be found, making crocos/wolves stronger without real vantage to the game, as it wouldn't add any new strategy to the game. Another example is the -40% spies cost as team bonus. Spies are a key tech and can't cost that little.

7) I agree a berseker re-design is needed.
9) I agree on reduction of production time for wolves
10) The goal of the TC attack for gallas is to give some kind of protection to sheeps on v early game.
13) this is for people practicing alone. they need some kind of AI to be present.
14) No, it's too expensive without giving no real advantage. Doing it too early would slow too much a new wolf and would give discutible advantanges, doing it too late it's too late.
15) i agree about not much difference. Will a croco will be able to kill a claw fish like that? what would be the advantage for a wrag of +5 attack?



@gallas, about the croco attack vs buildings, it would be nice if it is penetrating into the armours, so that it can take down the walls built over the dead sheeps or in other situations where walls needs to be taken down without blast.
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 +Gallas


Группа: System Operator
Дата причоединения 25 de de 2011
Посты:2055
Размещено10 de de 2017 - 17:55
I have an idea about making sheep civ bonuses good, while team bonuses less important, to prevent the "must have" feeling for a civ. In addition Wolves should get better team bonuses for some civ (maybe switching civ with team bonus if can).
Quote:
Will a croco will be able to kill a claw fish like that? what would be the advantage for a wrag of +5 attack?
Okay you got me here 11
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 [MM]Mallow_


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 19 de de 2016
Посты:28
Отредактировано10 de de 2017 - 18:34[MM]Mallow_
1) civs changes automatically changes strategy of playing it to an extend...but whatever the civs is sheeps game stays similar, since good sheeps always tend to make good trade and no matter what other do they are likely to make LT. thats why i thought of asking for civs changes so people will have to do particular roles in the game there by making it interesting for all players and all feels they are part of the game than just collecting enormous amount of gold and just be slinger.

2) 10% fish speed isnt a huge speed . this is just to make people use it, not as compulsory but with interest. if u look at it there is bloodbone with croc speed+20% and +1 los as team bonus. so it makes wolf to consider sheeps civs before choosing wolf civs there each game will be played slightly different. another example of destroyer and iron guard. i would like the game to be played slightly differently all time.

3) where as wolfs civs individual and team bonus can be helpful in playing with different strategies. choosing each different civs should be interesting for players thats why i proposed few changes

4) w.r.t hunger is like buying a bonus it is giving decent speed as far as i noted. but i am with that price may be a slight increase in eating speed is good but again then if u find yurt early u already have super eating speed since yurt gives 25% eating speed...but i would take hunger in cheaper price too..11.

5) tc never gives much protection to sheeps. only help a little bit to run from wolfs...it can never damage a wolf enough and if wolf miss a tc in early game those tc arrow can attck wolf and the wolf see's it.

6) w.r.t spies hardly any sheep get spies since they are not interested in spending for spies and outpost itself will help sheeps a lot. a slightly cheaper spies wont be a great attraction to choose eagle watch thats why i said 40% less still makes it 3000 gold
thnks
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 Peterpaiter


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 23 de de 2014
Посты:42
Отредактировано10 de de 2017 - 18:51Peterpaiter
1) civs changes automatically changes strategy of playing it to an extend...but whatever the civs is sheeps game stays similar, since good sheeps always tend to make good trade and no matter what other do they are likely to make LT. thats why i thought of asking for civs changes so people will have to do particular roles in the game there by making it interesting for all players and all feels they are part of the game than just collecting enormous amount of gold and just be slinger.

2) 10% fish speed isnt a huge speed . this is just to make people use it, not as compulsory but with interest. if u look at it there is bloodbone with croc speed+20% and +1 los as team bonus. so it makes wolf to consider sheeps civs before choosing wolf civs there each game will be played slightly different. another example of destroyer and iron guard. i would like the game to be played slightly differently all time.

3) where as wolfs civs individual and team bonus can be helpful in playing with different strategies. choosing each different civs should be interesting for players thats why i proposed few changes

4) w.r.t hunger is like buying a bonus it is giving decent speed as far as i noted. but i am with that price may be a slight increase in eating speed is good but again then if u find yurt early u already have super eating speed since yurt gives 25% eating speed...but i would take hunger in cheaper price too..11.

5) tc never gives much protection to sheeps. only help a little bit to run from wolfs...it can never damage a wolf enough and if wolf miss a tc in early game those tc arrow can attck wolf and the wolf see's it.

6) w.r.t spies hardly any sheep get spies since they are not interested in spending for spies and outpost itself will help sheeps a lot. a slightly cheaper spies wont be a great attraction to choose eagle watch thats why i said 40% less still makes it 3000 gold
thnks


1) I'm not an expert of the sheep's game, but i partially agree on the first point. I do only partially, because going on that direction risks to make noobs become only a problem in a pros game, like it is for wolves. On the other side i agree on sling etc, and i feel like there should be at least a higher cost of slinging, so that people are more pushed on doing things on their own. After all slinging, for example for LT, means that player will not do all the techs needed for Lt.

2) i disagree about 10% not beeing a lot of speed. i can tell you i totally see the difference if i've to follow fishes with the wolf having or not having an upgrade of 10% speed, same thing i notice it on crocos, always compared to trading fishes. about the bloodbone's civ, the thing is that first changes on wolves' sides are needed so that people can feel more free to take different civs then the usuals. let's also not forget about the higher gold from trade. How much would u reduce the gold from trade for such a bonus, and why do you feel it is important if you do not feel like it would help trade, increasing then the overall gold of sheeps? I agree about the need of more strategies in the game, and that's why i push Gallas on changes on sheep's predators, to make them more usuable and other things, but i do not get the destroyer/ironguard thing.

3) I agree, but that's the goal of Gallas too

4) I never buy nor hunger nor eating speed at yurt. during hunting the most of hte time is lost not eating animals but hunting them

5) that's why a change on them is what Gallas' thinking about (for the super early stages of the game, so young wolf/elder wolf and that's it more or less)

6) I care a lot if sheeps has or do not has spies. and yes, i agree, outposts has too much LOS for sure. let's not forget spies are related to animals too, increasing the strengh of animals and reducing the LOS(for example no eagle's bonus on them? after all, the higher the radius of a building of already present LOS, the higher bigger the effect of that +3 LOS, more new square shown) of outposts would make spies more interesting upgrade for sheeps too.
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 [MM]Mallow_


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 19 de de 2016
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Размещено10 de de 2017 - 19:39
1) one boomer wolf can easily get spies in under 1hour. after that sheeps long trade is doomed anyways.
also if the wolf is not searching for sheeps in early game, it makes me think the wolf gaming is stupid. because all you do is eat. there is no need to think much when it comes to eating.
slinging is already is a good price if u see there are multiple researches for it too. And sheeps doing their own stuff is not easy as u feel as there are chances u could be found early by wolf. even trading and slinging is greatly affected just because the wolf is searching well.

2) 10% speed for fish is only present if sheeps choose s-merchant. so if sheep choose it wolf can choose bloodbone if he want to hunt fish with croc or swiftfoot for wolf or getting all paw tech itself makes a normal wolf to kill fish. and w.r.t higher trade gold. is not easy to get a long trade route as since it is random generated map the seas might not be connected sometimes, so many edges etc will ruin trade. and also a big disadvantage for sheeps sometimes no base at all or no proper bases are problems for sheep which is hard to fix sometimes. where as wolf is not greatly affected like these except when it lags.
the proposed change for destroyer is all +15 ap for towers. so if u want to attack early as vet it could be impossble to do it if you dont have iron guard or defender. so it makes wolf to consider those civs if sheeps have chosen destroyer.

4) not really each wolf player is different hunting animals doesn't take much time in later game as wolf is strong and fast. these things make a huge difference.

5) u still dont get me..we are trying to add protection. if u keep weak arrows for tc which auto fires neither it will damage wolf or croc and instead it will help wolf to find sheep just becoz it attack when wolf is near. if u dont know there are so many games when sheeps are missed so close by wolf since wolf has less los early games.

6)what u mean?.111
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 Peterpaiter


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 23 de de 2014
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Размещено10 de de 2017 - 19:55
5) No one says you've to get into the TC. get into it to make the TC shoot arrows able to defend you vs young and elder wolf. that's the goal.

6) I mean LOS of outposts is too much. eagle bonus not affecting outposts would make things more correct.
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 [MM]Mallow_


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Дата причоединения 19 de de 2016
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Размещено10 de de 2017 - 20:09
1) he proposed auto attack and asked if its good or no. so i said it could be bad for sheeps.
http://www.voobly.com/gamemods/view/13/Sheep%20vs%20Wolf%202

2) eagle bonus of +3 los for sheeps. i asked to make it default. so people can ignore eagle watch if needed.
and not affecting outposts.
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 Peterpaiter


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Дата причоединения 23 de de 2014
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Размещено10 de de 2017 - 20:55
yea, i agree on both.

http://www.voobly.com/forum/thread/235924/4#pagebrowser1

here i had proposed my solution for the TC
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 [MM]___CLAW


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Дата причоединения 8 de de 2014
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Размещено11 de de 2017 - 15:03
My head started spinning reading all these long posts
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 Peterpaiter


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Дата причоединения 23 de de 2014
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Размещено20 de de 2017 - 07:19
yes, we want yurt in the middle
yes, we want reduced creation time for wolf, and possibility to create it when an upgrade's going on too
yes, TC's hp of guardian's wrong, as also the HP of mega and tons of other stuff with guardian.

YES, the game is totally unbalanced now
yes, the game is always more becoming a rage to mega game.
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 shahji


Группа: стандартный аккаунт
Дата причоединения 2 de de 2009
Посты:23
Размещено21 de de 2017 - 15:32
Hi Gallas,

The new upgrade of wolf killers is too cheap..it has made wolf killers too strong.. 2 mega wolves are struggling to kill 15 wolf killers ..

Now with even no trade,shep can make wonder, wall and wolf killers.. Wolf need to be mega before they can kill wolf killers..

Please restore to previous update as it was very balanced..
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 shahji


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Дата причоединения 2 de de 2009
Посты:23
Размещено22 de de 2017 - 16:12
Hi Gallas,

Can you create another map for WVW which does not have 100, 300 fish..It creates a lot of imbalance if 1 player gets 100/300 food in beginning, while others get only 20/40
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 +Gallas


Группа: System Operator
Дата причоединения 25 de de 2011
Посты:2055
Размещено22 de de 2017 - 21:43
Yeah sure, np.
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 shahji


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Дата причоединения 2 de de 2009
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Размещено26 de de 2017 - 11:08
Thanks.. The black sheep is awesome..specially for WVW.. good fun..wolf make wargs n eat black sheep..


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